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Topic: Wtf

Doombrain
Kempston Joy

Joined: 11 Aug 2000
Posts: 48594

Posted: 02-13-2017 04:41 AM

Canada man who beheaded bus passenger granted freedom
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38945061

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 02-13-2017 05:08 AM

He was deemed not criminally responsible (schizophrenic), was put into psychiatric treatment for several years, treated and released. I get that what he did was gruesome and tragic, but he was not of his own mind when the incident occurred. As such, he was as much a victim as the other man and has to live with the knowledge of what he has done. He is continuing to receive treatment and is no longer a danger to the public. Our courts and institutions are, after all, about rehabilitation rather than punishment.

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YourGrandpa
Blockheaded Blubberboy

Joined: 16 Apr 2000
Posts: 20816

Posted: 02-13-2017 05:14 AM

That's the progression of society. Nobody does anything wrong, because it's always someone else's fault.

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YourGrandpa
Blockheaded Blubberboy

Joined: 16 Apr 2000
Posts: 20816

Posted: 02-13-2017 05:18 AM

obsidian wrote:
He was deemed not criminally responsible (schizophrenic), was put into psychiatric treatment for several years, treated and released. I get that what he did was gruesome and tragic, but he was not of his own mind when the incident occurred. As such, he was as much a victim as the other man and has to live with the knowledge of what he has done. He is continuing to receive treatment and is no longer a danger to the public. Our courts and institutions are, after all, about rehabilitation rather than punishment.

They should send him to live with you. Then you and your family can worry every day that this helpless, docile, schizophrenic takes his medication.

FFS...

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plained
plained

Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 18772

Posted: 02-13-2017 05:24 AM

obsidian wrote:
He was deemed not criminally responsible (schizophrenic), was put into psychiatric treatment for several years, treated and released. I get that what he did was gruesome and tragic, but he was not of his own mind when the incident occurred. As such, he was as much a victim as the other man and has to live with the knowledge of what he has done. He is continuing to receive treatment and is no longer a danger to the public. Our courts and institutions are, after all, about rehabilitation rather than punishment.

so wrong and so naive

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it is about time!

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lars63
FuddyDuddy

Joined: 14 May 2000
Posts: 5954

Posted: 02-13-2017 06:26 AM

I don't know, I think I would be sort of nervous with this guy walking the streets late at night but that's just me, you guys in Canada are braver than me. I can understand the rehabilitation part but putting him back into society, sounds a little iffy to me

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Captain
Legend

Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 16498

Posted: 02-13-2017 06:53 AM

obsidian wrote:
He is continuing to receive treatment and is no longer a danger to the public.

Until he stops taking his medication which isn't being monitored. Would you be ok with him being your neighbour?

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seremtan
Etile

Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 34898

Posted: 02-13-2017 11:06 AM

Quote:
Alerted by screams from the victim, the driver stopped the bus and fled with the passengers as Mr Baker continued his attack.

at the risk of second-guessing the situation, was there nothing anyone on the bus could have done?

obsidian wrote:
...he was as much a victim as the other man...

this is fucking bullshit on an epic scale

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Doombrain
Kempston Joy

Joined: 11 Aug 2000
Posts: 48594

Posted: 02-13-2017 12:07 PM

obsidian wrote:
He was deemed not criminally responsible (schizophrenic), was put into psychiatric treatment for several years, treated and released. I get that what he did was gruesome and tragic, but he was not of his own mind when the incident occurred. As such, he was as much a victim as the other man and has to live with the knowledge of what he has done. He is continuing to receive treatment and is no longer a danger to the public. Our courts and institutions are, after all, about rehabilitation rather than punishment.

Nice troll dude. Just like how he trolled the mans organs after removing the head for no reason.

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Whiskey 7
Just another Earthling

Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 12926

Posted: 02-13-2017 01:02 PM

Captain Mazda wrote:
obsidian wrote:
He is continuing to receive treatment and is no longer a danger to the public.

Until he stops taking his medication which isn't being monitored. Would you be ok with him being your neighbour?

He is always a danger to the public! IMO he should be in custody until he is of no danger, read NEVER!

We had a murder here where someone threw petrol over a bus driver at a bus stop then lit him up. Some might say he wasn't responsible for the attack. I say he should die the same way. Tied to a chair, dowsed in petrol then set fire

Didn't hear of it I suppose where you are so read it here

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... scrin.html

You see I am upset by this and I will add I have friends that drive buses.

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Captain
Legend

Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 16498

Posted: 02-13-2017 01:29 PM

Whiskey 7 wrote:
We had a murder here where someone threw petrol over a bus driver at a bus stop then lit him up. Some might say he wasn't responsible for the attack. I say he should die the same way. Tied to a chair, dowsed in petrol then set fire

Well then you have a very fucked up, vengeful Christian view of the world.

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plained
plained

Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 18772

Posted: 02-13-2017 01:50 PM

none of the no-minds/gobo's/twump is hiller! will "march-in-contempt-and-must-resist"

they werent told to :

this is a shit sandwich we eat because it makes us less.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/mountie-wh ... -1.1918550

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it is about time!

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Doombrain
Kempston Joy

Joined: 11 Aug 2000
Posts: 48594

Posted: 02-13-2017 01:52 PM

wat

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Whiskey 7
Just another Earthling

Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 12926

Posted: 02-13-2017 01:59 PM

I did add I was upset at this senseless atrocity against a fellow man.

Don't misunderstand me, I have always been one for 'an eye for an eye'. Start cutting fingers off thieves, one at a time if you prefer and they will cease, eventually with no fingers left. Likewise with graffiti vandals; if your 'art' it good enough to place everywhere and every chance you get, we will tattoo on you forehead!

Society can do well without scum!

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plained
plained

Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 18772

Posted: 02-13-2017 02:10 PM

youre fucked

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it is about time!

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seremtan
Etile

Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 34898

Posted: 02-13-2017 03:14 PM

Captain Mazda wrote:
...Christian...

"eye for an eye" = Jewish
cutting off thieves' hands = Islamic

all desert religions are retarded

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phantasmagoria
Bück Dich

Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 6228

Posted: 02-14-2017 01:03 AM

Whiskey 7 wrote:
Don't misunderstand me, I have always been one for 'an eye for an eye'. Start cutting fingers off thieves, one at a time if you prefer and they will cease, eventually with no fingers left. Likewise with graffiti vandals; if your 'art' it good enough to place everywhere and every chance you get, we will tattoo on you forehead!

Whiskey 7 wrote:
We had a murder here where someone threw petrol over a bus driver at a bus stop then lit him up. Some might say he wasn't responsible for the attack. I say he should die the same way. Tied to a chair, dowsed in petrol then set fire

Wtf

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plained
plained

Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 18772

Posted: 02-14-2017 04:12 AM

he was a prison guard!

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it is about time!

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Κracus
Lead Pipe Mafia

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947

Posted: 02-14-2017 09:19 AM

Yeah... there's some pretty ignorant arguments here.

Just put yourselves in his shoes, you're you, you don't plan on killing anyone. Suddenly, you're not in control of what you're doing, you can't recall what you've done and you wind up with someones body parts as you're decorative stylings.

You wouldn't feel like you're responsible as you simply weren't in control, nor even conscious of having done it. Would you think its fair to be set on fire because of it?

Hell there's drugs people can give you that'll do the same thing!

What it boils down to is intent and criminal negligence. He's been through the system and instead of being held to a mob mentality he was actually diagnosed properly by a professional team and was instead properly treated. Incarcerating a mental patient doesn't benefit anyone, except maybe private prison systems that run for profit that don't give two shits about you.

I know deep down some of you just think guilty is guilty no matter the circumstances and just know that you are part of the problem with society.

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YourGrandpa
Blockheaded Blubberboy

Joined: 16 Apr 2000
Posts: 20816

Posted: 02-14-2017 09:28 AM

This is all good as long as he can come live with you and you become responsible for him staying on his medication.

Now if he goes off his meds and kills again, we kill you and him.

Cool?

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HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft

Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998

Posted: 02-14-2017 09:29 AM

Doombrain wrote:
wat

i get the feeling that plained was beheaded at some point but his body is still in front of a keyboard and typing. Would explain a lot.

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Eraser
Cool #9

Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 44136

Posted: 02-14-2017 09:42 AM

I like to think it's his disembodied head still behind the PC, trying to type by continually smacking his forehead into the keyboard.

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plained
plained

Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 18772

Posted: 02-14-2017 10:19 AM

haha funny stuff eraser!

yea when i read your stuff i often mistake it for the personality of a bot!

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Eraser
Cool #9

Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 44136

Posted: 02-14-2017 10:24 AM

Beep boop

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Κracus
Lead Pipe Mafia

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947

Posted: 02-14-2017 10:26 AM

YourGrandpa wrote:
This is all good as long as he can come live with you and you become responsible for him staying on his medication.

Now if he goes off his meds and kills again, we kill you and him.

Cool?

Yeah that's a pretty stupid way of thinking about it but I guess it makes sense given the state of your prison system in the US...

The reality at this point is that I assume part of his release is that he has to take these drugs/treatments. I'm further making an assumption that he's been deemed not a threat to the public, else he'd still be locked up. Avoiding his treatments I'm assuming would be grounds for re-incarceration and should he commit a crime because he was off his meds would make him criminally liable. I know you have a thick skull gramps but you really need to understand that punishing people with legitimate mental health issues is just as criminal as those that commit crimes who weren't in control of themselves.

On the flipside of your "argument" what if he doesn't commit a crime? What if the treatments he's on is actually helping him and he goes on to be a productive member of society? Should he be held accountable for an act he wouldn't do in sane mind? The world isn't black and white, there's a cornucopia of colors and you can't just wash everything as one or the other when it comes to crime. Ultimately, when it comes to crime, there's an entire spectrum of issues who's sole point of blame is society and how we stigmatize and shun others. Beyond those with actual mental health issues caused by chemical imbalances there's those that are of sound mind that do heinous things because of social pressures and conditioning. I see it in every ignorant comment in this thread. Ideas and concepts that worked a long time ago because society was ok with simply punishing those for reasons they didn't understand. It genuinely makes me sad to see that there are people on this planet that refuse to let these ideas go and I think the reasons for that are entirely egoistic in nature. You associate your stance on this subject as a part of who you are and it would make you less of a person to admit you might be wrong so you buckle down on idiotic thoughts and ideas to strengthen your sense of self knowing others like you will agree and further re-enforce the idea that you're right. Hell I might be doing the exact same thing for the exact opposite reason but egoistic nonetheless. I just feel like my stance is more compassionate and will ultimately lead us as a species in a better direction.

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plained
plained

Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 18772

Posted: 02-14-2017 10:28 AM

Eraser wrote:
Beep boop

there u go!

most original though and insight youve ever posted!

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it is about time!

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plained
plained

Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 18772

Posted: 02-14-2017 10:43 AM

Κracus i dont know if youre trying to come off as benevolent or educated or compassionate or trying to show humility or what

it isnt working tho,

the guy whoopsie daisy'ed off his meds and ate somebodies sons/dads ears and organs drank the blood played around awile.

and now it is my understanding you want to give him the opportunity to come off his meds again? the odds of re-offence are too high, coupled with the nature of his behavior, no stay locked up.

so some excuses are legit enough to warrant freedom from this level of violent actions? na.

had he came off his meds and sat in the park with his cart eating catshit like puff, i'd say sure let him go!

na it isnt inhumane to have him locked up tight in a work factory and watching tv somewhere . they do it for people who steal and deal.

inhumane is what he did to the victim. also the disrespect all the victims have had with this, that is in-humane .

i see your active compassion for vince li but like all people who think he should walk free, you never ever show any for the victims.

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YourGrandpa
Blockheaded Blubberboy

Joined: 16 Apr 2000
Posts: 20816

Posted: 02-14-2017 10:48 AM

Κracus wrote:
Blah blah blah, bleeding heart bullshit...

You've based your entire position on hopes and assumptions, and I'm stupid.

So is he coming to live with you or what? Because the FACTS still remain. He is schizophrenic, on medication and could possibly kill again. If he can't be responsible for himself, someone should be. That way if he kills again it would be the responsible persons fault... If you had any faith in your hopes and assumptions you would take him in.

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Κracus
Lead Pipe Mafia

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947

Posted: 02-14-2017 11:28 AM

plained wrote:

the guy whoopsie daisy'ed off his meds

You're going to have to cite that, from my understanding he wasn't being treated for his schizophrenia when that happened and nothing in the article suggests he was which is kinda my whole point. It's an absolute tragedy it happened, no question about that and I most certainly feel awful for the victims family. I still don't think it's ok to vilify him IF he had a mental condition that caused him to do what he did unwillingly.

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YourGrandpa
Blockheaded Blubberboy

Joined: 16 Apr 2000
Posts: 20816

Posted: 02-14-2017 11:33 AM

How someone can be willing to put other people's lives at risk based on ifs and assumptions is beyond me.

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Κracus
Lead Pipe Mafia

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947

Posted: 02-14-2017 11:42 AM

YourGrandpa wrote:
Κracus wrote:
Blah blah blah, bleeding heart bullshit...

You've based your entire position on hopes and assumptions, and I'm stupid.

So is he coming to live with you or what? Because the FACTS still remain. He is schizophrenic, on medication and could possibly kill again. If he can't be responsible for himself, someone should be. That way if he kills again it would be the responsible persons fault... If you had any faith in your hopes and assumptions you would take him in.

That's entirely incorrect. My position isn't based on faith, hope or assumptions. It's based on compassion and an open mind. So he's schizophrenic? Many people are, should they all be locked up? If he can't be responsible for himself someone would be. In fact, that's been the case for several years already and it's come to the point where those that are responsible for him are able to say at this point in time that they feel, based on his behavior, that he's capable of being responsible for himself but I doubt it's that simple. I highly suspect he's still being monitored to some degree.

Let's say you're right though, and he does kill again. Should his handlers be held responsible? I think so and I also think he should be held accountable and locked up indefinitely but I don't think we should jump there without trying treatment first. If you replace the term Schizophrenic with Diabetes the concept of taking drugs to fix a problem suddenly seems alright but why isn't it ok for schizophrenia? That's the real problem here. People like you stigmatize real mental issues like that to such a degree that those that legitimately have it might not seek treatment and then eat peoples ears.

Imagine if diabetics had the same stigma? Some might rather just die than get treated, it's absolutely ridiculous and shouldn't be the case and that's really the problem with mental health issues.

You can choose to believe your own hyperbole if you want but I choose not to. I think people that suffer from diagnosed, real, mental health problems deserve treatment as much as any other non mental health related problem.

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Κracus
Lead Pipe Mafia

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947

Posted: 02-14-2017 11:43 AM

YourGrandpa wrote:
How someone can be willing to put other people's lives at risk based on ifs and assumptions is beyond me.

Denying someone a life because of a treatable disease is beyond me.

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YourGrandpa
Blockheaded Blubberboy

Joined: 16 Apr 2000
Posts: 20816

Posted: 02-14-2017 11:55 AM

He's ALREADY KILLED SOMEONE you MORON. That mean he's capable of doing it again. Of course you don't lock up someone just because they're schizophrenic. You lock them up because they're a murdering schizophrenic. Schizophrenia isn't curable and treatment is the responsibility of the schizophrenic. You don't let that person back into society in hopes it never happens again. You keep them under lock and key to guarantee it.

Again you've avoided the question of putting yourself and your family's life on the line for this guy. Maybe it's because you don't really have enough faith in what you're saying. But it's easy for to have a position like this because your family member wasn't brutally murdered and you'll never be at risk.

YOU are what's wrong with society.

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Κracus
Lead Pipe Mafia

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947

Posted: 02-14-2017 12:12 PM

No, asking some random family to care for a mental health patient is just ridiculous and not at all a realistic scenario.

Yeah he killed someone, I get that, really I do. Lets say a diabetic passes out at the wheel and kills someone but didn't know he was diabetic. Jail for life? Or get treatment?

Because this is a mental health problem, you and many other people feel he should be locked up and the key should be thrown away. It's a complete double standard and it's based on a medieval mind frame that's simply ignorant.

You're also ignoring my point of what if he doesn't kill anyone else? What if he actually had a problem and actually got help and is actually better and actually wasn't responsible for his actions? What about those possibilities?

Nah, you'd rather just kill him and be done with it. Forget trying to treat it, learn from it, figure out what's actually causing it and how to prevent it and a number of other benefits.

Shit, think about this, what if YOU become schizophrenic? Wouldn't you want to be able to get treatment for it? Treatment that's been used and tested and known to work because of people like him? Nah, lets just bury our heads in the sand and kill him and just perpetuate the problem even longer so MORE people with schizophrenia kill even MORE people.

Yeah... pft, finding solutions to these problems, who needs that noise?

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YourGrandpa
Blockheaded Blubberboy

Joined: 16 Apr 2000
Posts: 20816

Posted: 02-14-2017 12:35 PM

Κracus wrote:
If, if, if , if.

Let's risk more lives on ifs... I'll play your IF game. What IF he stops responding to his medication and kills someone else? Do we lock him up again, give him more rehab, change his medication and release him back into society? Because after all it's not his fault and his quality of life in paramount to public safety... Exactly how many people can he kill before he should be locked away for good? You've obviously decided that his quality of life is more important than the person he killed.

And diabetes can be physically monitored and generally doesn't kill other people when it isn't treated.

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Quake3World.com | Forum Index | General Discussion

Canada man who beheaded bus passenger granted freedomhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38945061

That's the progression of society. Nobody does anything wrong, because it's always someone else's fault.

I don't know, I think I would be sort of nervous with this guy walking the streets late at night but that's just me, you guys in Canada are braver than me. I can understand the rehabilitation part but putting him back into society, sounds a little iffy to me

obsidian wrote: He is continuing to receive treatment and is no longer a danger to the public.Until he stops taking his medication which isn't being monitored. Would you be ok with him being your neighbour?

none of the no-minds/gobo's/twump is hiller! will "march-in-contempt-and-must-resist"they werent told to : this is a shit sandwich we eat because it makes us less.http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/mountie-wh ... -1.1918550

wat

youre fucked

Captain Mazda wrote:...Christian..."eye for an eye" = Jewishcutting off thieves' hands = Islamicall desert religions are retarded

he was a prison guard!

This is all good as long as he can come live with you and you become responsible for him staying on his medication.Now if he goes off his meds and kills again, we kill you and him.Cool?

Doombrain wrote:wati get the feeling that plained was beheaded at some point but his body is still in front of a keyboard and typing. Would explain a lot.

I like to think it's his disembodied head still behind the PC, trying to type by continually smacking his forehead into the keyboard.

haha funny stuff eraser!yea when i read your stuff i often mistake it for the personality of a bot!

Beep boop

Eraser wrote:Beep boopthere u go!most original though and insight youve ever posted!

How someone can be willing to put other people's lives at risk based on ifs and assumptions is beyond me.

YourGrandpa wrote:How someone can be willing to put other people's lives at risk based on ifs and assumptions is beyond me.Denying someone a life because of a treatable disease is beyond me.

Canada man who beheaded bus passenger granted freedom
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38945061

obsidian wrote:
He is continuing to receive treatment and is no longer a danger to the public.

Until he stops taking his medication which isn't being monitored. Would you be ok with him being your neighbour?

none of the no-minds/gobo's/twump is hiller! will "march-in-contempt-and-must-resist"

they werent told to :

this is a shit sandwich we eat because it makes us less.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/mountie-wh ... -1.1918550

Captain Mazda wrote:
...Christian...

"eye for an eye" = Jewish
cutting off thieves' hands = Islamic

all desert religions are retarded

This is all good as long as he can come live with you and you become responsible for him staying on his medication.

Now if he goes off his meds and kills again, we kill you and him.

Cool?

Doombrain wrote:
wat

i get the feeling that plained was beheaded at some point but his body is still in front of a keyboard and typing. Would explain a lot.

haha funny stuff eraser!

yea when i read your stuff i often mistake it for the personality of a bot!

Eraser wrote:
Beep boop

there u go!

most original though and insight youve ever posted!

YourGrandpa wrote:
How someone can be willing to put other people's lives at risk based on ifs and assumptions is beyond me.

Denying someone a life because of a treatable disease is beyond me.