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Topic Starter Topic: Standing Rock, and the Dakota Access Pipeline

Arrr?
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PostPosted: 11-04-2016 12:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't know how many of you have been following this in the news, but there's a protest in North Dakota about a pipeline being constructed on a Native American reservation.

The Dakota Access Pipeline is meant to connect oil production areas in North Dakota to extisting pipelines in Illinois. Pipelines already exist for that route, but this new pipeline is a more direct route and will save money in the long run. But it goes through the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation and dangerously close to the community's only source of fresh water. Dakota Access claims the chances of a leak are slim, but there have been multiple reports of leaks from their pipelines in the past, and they've hidden 300ish spills in the last 2 years alone. They nixed a proposed route once because the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said came too close to Bismark. But those were white people. So they moved the proposed route downstream where it only affects Standing Rock.

So people started protesting by chaining themselves to the construction equipment. The response was swift. First private security sicced dogs on the protesters. Militarized police moved in and disrupted the protesters' camp and have made several mass arrests. They've been so aggressive that Amnesty International has sent observers to monitor the protest. Despite this, the police are still pepper spraying people point-blank, even though they're just standing there. A few people have even been shot by nonlethal rounds for no reason, though I wouldn't use the term "point blank" in this instance. They're being dehumanized, forced to sit in kennels after being arrested, and getting strip searched. The only reason any of this is in the mainstream news is because a pretty white actress has been protesting alongside the Sioux. Fortunately, Shailene Woodley seems to know her shit, rather than just trying to capitalize on some good publicity. Hell, there was even a Dakota Access employee who tried to infiltrate the protesters with an assault rifle, but he was caught immediately. LOL false flagowned. :olo:

Early into this whole thing, Obama urged Dakota Access to halt construction while the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers looked into the possibility of rerouting the pipeline. Despite that, Dakota Access has been busy constructing the pipeline day and night, ignoring the government and moving closer and closer to the end goal. North Dakota is a big oil state, and the governor is friendly to the oil companies, which may explain a few things. The oil industry is the top political contributor to the governor.

My prediction is that the movement slowly loses steam and the pipeline gets built. A year or so from now, there will be a spill and the water supply will get contaminated, everyone will say "I told you so," and then it will be out of the news again. Maybe a token fine will be levied against Dakota Access. :disgust:

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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 11-04-2016 12:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The government is preventing them from digging underneath the Missouri river portion of their route. That part is legally binding and currently being upheld by the pipeline contractors. But Obama's request about halting construction overall was merely a request, which was ignored because every day the pipeline isn't done is another day of lost profits. They are building the pipeline as far as they are legally allowed to go.



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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 11-04-2016 02:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Time to decolonize everywhere.




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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 11-04-2016 02:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Memphis wrote:
So they build up to a certain point and the protesters stick a sign saying, 'lol, no', no? I mean, if the law is on their side? Seen Stein, Goodman (was this Sanders too?) and others getting nicked for joining protests, but not much else, tbh, with it being kept off the radar so. Plus this seeming one of the smalller threads that could be of America's corporate power concerns at present. This is precisely the kind of shit that folk are inadvertantly in favour of because they don't like Donald :shrug:
Y'all tell me noone cares about an FBI-involved election steeped in corruption and expect some sort of answers to this? Please :dts:

Not trying to troll, but seriously. Corporations running rough-shod over a supposed government, or worse, is surely what this comes down to...


As far as the law being on their side, the Sioux tribe has had a treaty in place with America dating back to the 1800s giving them sovereign land in that area. Over the decades the area has been chipped away at and taken over by the government. The pipeline goes through their water source and threatens their ability to live in the area in the future. Forget the law, morality is on their side.

Sanders never went there, but Stein got pinched for vandalism and trespassing before charges were dropped. Goodman was arrested for rioting before charges were dismissed. Woodley was arrested for rioting and trespassing before the rioting charges were dropped.

The mainstream media doesn't care, but I do. And I don't expect an answer to this, hence the last sentence in my first post.



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Etile
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PostPosted: 12-03-2016 04:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


jesus h tittyfucking christ where do you get this shit from?

please tell me you don't actually follow people on Twatter :dts:




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Lead Pipe Mafia
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PostPosted: 12-03-2016 04:48 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There's a lot of misinformation with what's going on here. I can't be arsed to dig into this again but from what I've read it sounds like the Sioux agreed to this then made a huge stnk about it. I suggest finding an unbiased source.




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Etile
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PostPosted: 12-03-2016 10:14 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
unbiased source.


:dts:




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Etile
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PostPosted: 12-03-2016 01:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


are you black now?




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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 12-03-2016 01:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
jesus h tittyfucking christ where do you get this shit from?

please tell me you don't actually follow people on Twatter :dts:

He's actually not wrong on this one. There's a huge movement that's been organized largely by Wes Clark Jr. (son of Wesley Clark Sr., who ran for president back in 2004) for veterans to go to Standing Rock and join the Water Protectors.

Quote:
Clark Jr. is a 47-year-old writer, political commentator, and activist based in California. Joining him in the fight is Michael A. Wood Jr., a Marine Corps veteran and former Baltimore police officer who retired his badge in 2014 to become an advocate for national police reform. Earlier this month, the duo formed Veterans Stand For Standing Rock with the hope of drawing scores of veterans, as well as fire fighters, ex-law enforcement officers, emergency medical personnel and others to the battleground for a three-day “deployment” in early December to “prevent progress on the Dakota Access Pipeline and draw national attention to the human rights warriors of the Sioux tribes.” Both men say they’re prepared to take a bullet, rubber or otherwise, for a cause they believe should be of critical importance to any patriotic American.


They've already raised over $1M on GoFundMe in order to get broadcasting equipment, transportation and supplies so they can do live reporting while they're there. They are handing over coordination efforts to a decentralized group of Sioux nation members (and all women at that, since it's a matriarchal society).



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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 12-03-2016 01:36 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:|



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PostPosted: 12-03-2016 04:08 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Some things to keep in mind.

-The oil being transported comes from the Bakken Oil Fields. It is sweet oil and has an extremely low environmental impact compared to, say oil sands oil.

-The pipeline does not pass through the reservation, it passes upstream of the reservation.

-The residents of Bismarck did not "reject" the pipeline passing upstream of Bismarck. The pipeline route was chosen because it minimizes water crossings. The route was modified many times to find the most environmentally friendly route.

-The majority of the oil that will be filling the line would have been shipped by rail. Rail is not as safe, it is more expensive, runs through high population areas, and on a per bbl basis, pollutes much more than rail.

-The pipeline did not offer Standing Rock payment at any time, both parties have confirmed this. Energy Transfer has offered a number of community services for the Standing Rock area however.

-The pipeline will be the safest line ever built. For instance, the portion under the river/lake will be up to 90 feet below the bottom of the water and will never come in contact with water. The pipe under the river will be heavy duty (double wall I think, don't quote me). Leak detection systems have a variety of methods of sensing leaks, but most use a mix of pressure waves or pressure readings sent to a control center via transmitters on either side of the river. Any alarm would immediately cause the block valves on either side of the river to shut and close off any flow.

-The Standing Rock Water Supply will not be impacted by the pipeline should it leak. Their water source is being moved in early 2017 and being piped in from an area approx 70 miles south. - Far enough away where even a bad oil spill would not affect it.

-The pipeline is actually following the same right-of-way as an existing natural gas pipeline. This pipeline already crosses under the river and was built in the 80s. Even if you believe the state archaeologists don't know anything and are getting paid off by the oil companies (ridiculous)

- the fact remains that all of the land has already been dug up! I believe there is a high voltage corridor in the immediate area as well.

Court proceedings http://earthjustice.org/sites/default/f ... ing-PI.pdf

Considering that, they're blocking a bridge used by emergency vehicles... Yeah, there's protesting but that's just foolish.




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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 12-03-2016 06:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
-The oil being transported comes from the Bakken Oil Fields. It is sweet oil and has an extremely low environmental impact compared to, say oil sands oil.
-Oil is oil, it's toxic to people and the environment either way. This "sweet oil" is specifically shale oil, which actually has more toxic compounds than conventional crude oil.

-The pipeline does not pass through the reservation, it passes upstream of the reservation.
-Yeah, right along the border of the reservation. Passing upstream of the reservation is arguably worse than passing through it, as any spill would leave them with no upstream area to get uncontaminated water.

-The residents of Bismarck did not "reject" the pipeline passing upstream of Bismarck. The pipeline route was chosen because it minimizes water crossings. The route was modified many times to find the most environmentally friendly route.
-Funny how their idea of "environmentally friendly" ignores Native Americans. The most environmentally friendly thing to do would be to spend this money on alternative energy sources instead.

-The majority of the oil that will be filling the line would have been shipped by rail. Rail is not as safe, it is more expensive, runs through high population areas, and on a per bbl basis, pollutes much more than rail.
When a rail car or a truck spills oil, it stops when the vehicle is empty. Pipelines keep spilling until they're shut off, and they don't always get shut off right away. They can leak for days and days before anyone notices, and automatic safety measures have already been proven to not work reliably. Plus, there's always the chance that they are intentionally left running becuse a leak is less costly for the oil company than shutting down the whole pipeline until a repair can be made.

-The pipeline did not offer Standing Rock payment at any time, both parties have confirmed this. Energy Transfer has offered a number of community services for the Standing Rock area however.
-If you're referring to the editorial from InsideSources.com, it lacks citation or evidence to back up their claims.

-The pipeline will be the safest line ever built. For instance, the portion under the river/lake will be up to 90 feet below the bottom of the water and will never come in contact with water. The pipe under the river will be heavy duty (double wall I think, don't quote me). Leak detection systems have a variety of methods of sensing leaks, but most use a mix of pressure waves or pressure readings sent to a control center via transmitters on either side of the river. Any alarm would immediately cause the block valves on either side of the river to shut and close off any flow.
-A safe pipeline is a joke. See above.

-The Standing Rock Water Supply will not be impacted by the pipeline should it leak. Their water source is being moved in early 2017 and being piped in from an area approx 70 miles south. - Far enough away where even a bad oil spill would not affect it.
-The new intake isn't even from an Energy Transfer project; it has been in the works over 5 years, before the DAPL even started. Water is currently drawn 20 miles from the pipeline's planned route. The extra 50 miles may dilute a spill, but it doesn't magically make it safe drinking water. A spill under a river is WAAAAY harder to contain and remedy than an above-ground pipe, and something tells me they won't shut off the oil flow while they do it. So a theoretical spill gets worse and worse and the Sioux have no alternative source to get water in the mean time. DAPL is notoriously bad at reporting spills; starting back in 2012 over a 2-year period, they had 300 spills and only reported 1 because it was a rail car/truck collision. That's not too ominous.

-The pipeline is actually following the same right-of-way as an existing natural gas pipeline. This pipeline already crosses under the river and was built in the 80s. Even if you believe the state archaeologists don't know anything and are getting paid off by the oil companies (ridiculous)
-Great, so let's build another one and double the chances of a spill.

- the fact remains that all of the land has already been dug up! I believe there is a high voltage corridor in the immediate area as well.
-Oh, well in that case, might as well keep going, right? Environmental concerns be damned, they already started!

Court proceedings http://earthjustice.org/sites/default/f ... ing-PI.pdf

Considering that, they're blocking a bridge used by emergency vehicles... Yeah, there's protesting but that's just foolish.
I'm pretty sure the Water Protectors aren't the ones who set up razor wire and concrete barricades...



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Lead Pipe Mafia
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PostPosted: 12-04-2016 06:26 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Most of what you're saying is rhetorics, incorrect or just plain wishful thinking. I was incorrect about the bridge thing but further reading makes it seem that it wasn't the bridge being blocked but rather an interstate highway.

It also looks like the dogs were in response to attacks on the workers. Don't have time to reply in detail but the protesters seem to be overblowing the reasons for the protests to begin with. .




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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 12-04-2016 12:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
Most of what you're saying is rhetorics, incorrect or just plain wishful thinking. Don't have time to reply in detail

Well that's too bad. When you get the time, I'd love to know what I'm wrong about. :up:

And it's not wishful thinking to be afraid of an oil spill that could poison people. That's fucking twisted.



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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 12-04-2016 05:25 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


DEINED!




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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 12-04-2016 05:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hahaha, Obama got shamed into acting. Looks like the veterans arriving was the straw that broke the camel's back. :olo:



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Digital Nausea
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PostPosted: 12-04-2016 05:40 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Drill baby drill!




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plained
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PostPosted: 12-05-2016 05:23 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Transient wrote:
Hahaha, Obama got shamed into acting. Looks like the veterans arriving was the straw that broke the camel's back. :olo:


Clueless as.always

Wow so more offshore oil you don't say



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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 12-12-2016 11:23 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 12-13-2016 12:11 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Makes you wonder how many other spills go unnoticed because of the vast swathes of uninhabited land around those parts. :(



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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 01-26-2017 07:36 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


https://thinkprogress.org/standing-rock ... .4s06x95ps

Shit's not looking good for the people down there. Drumpf is just going to barrel right through them. :(



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Kempston Joy
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PostPosted: 01-27-2017 04:34 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
are you black now?


Probably all the fanny he's smashing.




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