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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Shocking video of Doombrain getting his bike stuck in a fenc

Legend
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PostPosted: 01-10-2017 05:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote




Man, those poor guys just wanted to borrow some money or a phone. I swear they were gonna give it all back :tear:




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-10-2017 08:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Transient wrote:
losCHUNK wrote:
Nope.

The would be thief, or the person finding the bike would need to assume a degree of responsibility and failure to check wether the bike was capable of being ridden would fall upon his shoulders. Otherwise would be thiefs would have a case against you if they tripped over a dodgey step when robbing your house. The electro shock scenario is different though, as it isn't an appropriate security device and the responsibility shifts back to the owner if it was purposefully hidden to cause harm (the thief would have no way of knowing).

Baiting isn't illegal and isn't considered entrapment. With entrapment you need to put the idea of the crime into someones head.

So the video is actually dumb ass people thinking they found free stuff and become victims of their own stupid ass mistakes. Kinda like a fat fuck falling over.

There may be a difference in laws here, but in the States a thief could sue a homeowner if they fell over a dodgy step while stealing shit. It's bullshit, but I've seen stories about that kind of nonsense. :rolleyes:

As far as the baiting vid goes, that shit's just wrong. Someone could easily get seriously hurt or even killed. Cutting the brakes to a bike and enticing people to ride it down a steep hill, and tieing it in an effort to make them fall off once they hit max speed is assault, plain and simple. It's dangerous for the rider and for everyone around them. Sure, it's funny to laugh at other people's misfortune, especially when it looks like they're doing something wrong (like stealing a bike), but when you cause harm to someone, physical or otherwise, that crosses a line.


Anyone can sue anyone, especially in America, doesn't mean they'll win and there are very few exceptions that can result in a homeowner being sued successfully and none of them involve my scenario.

As far as the vid goes, it could just easily have been a real world scenario which is the point of the bait. So all this nonsense about cutting brakes and it being parked on a steep hill is just wind, the harm was caused by themself. 1st for stealing the bike and 2nd for not ensuring it can be ridden safely which is why it isn't illegal nor is it assault.



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-10-2017 08:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Transient wrote:
Captain Mazda wrote:
So it's nonsense if a burglar sues the person they were robbing, but catching thieves in the act and letting them humiliate themselves is a no-no?


....the person planned on returning the bike at the top of the hill after taking a joyride or three to the bottom. What if a little kid found the bike? Or were the assholes only waiting for homeless people to wander by? What the fuck is the bike crime like where you live, that makes it ok to laugh at homeless people getting hurt?


This is why people finding things have a duty of care, the bike could just as easily been left there because it was defective.

And where the fuck did this homeless people shit come from ?, drawing your own assumptions there. Not that it matters but you're creating a scenario and making it fact. They were actually murdering, heroin pushing rapist gangsters...

The problem you have is the intent of the prankster, which is fair enough but in the eyes of the law he left an unattended bike for people to take at their own risk, which they did.



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FuddyDuddy
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PostPosted: 01-10-2017 09:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


(IMO) If the person was honest he would have left the bike and kept on walking. I'm not arguing the baiting or any other scenario all I'm saying, well, never mind I already said it. Each has his own opinion I guess so no one is going to change what the other thinks. I'm still calling it stealing and if he would have not STOLE the bike he would have had no problems. Carry on,(LOL)



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-10-2017 09:14 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That's pretty much how it is. Your duty of care pretty much* ends when something is stolen from you, or, when someone finds something of yours that doesn't belong to them.

*not completely, you can't hide something with the intent to harm - not without a warning anyway (guard dog). So if there was a trip rope or someshit at the bottom of the hill that'd probably be illegal.



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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 01-10-2017 10:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Why would a trip rope be illegal but not a line secretly tied to the bike?



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The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 01-10-2017 10:55 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I would love a vigilante that murdered vigilantes.

I've had to chase people down because they inexplicably left their giant purses right next to me, or left their bikes unlocked, etc etc. Once had to call a guy and have him travel across the city to get his phone. I've lost so much shit as a young adult that I go very far out of my way to find the owners of things they lost.

These retards are complete cancer.




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Extreme evil
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PostPosted: 01-10-2017 11:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


even if it's fake, people enjoying it thinking it's real is still disgusting




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 04:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Transient wrote:
Why would a trip rope be illegal but not a line secretly tied to the bike?


Because with the one the thief failed to check wether the bike was... The duty of care resides with him.

With the other the the thief would have no reasonable way of knowing, the duty of care is still with the owner and with that responsibility there was an intent to harm. It would also apply to anyone walking past.



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Lead Pipe Mafia
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 10:05 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If you stole something from me I would not want to paralyze you for life as punishment.

It's that simple. Yes, the bike thief is wrong and deserves punishment, but this isn't it. The trap constitutes assault and whoever committed that assault should be held accountable.




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Kempston Joy
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 10:33 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Jesus, this forum.




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Etile
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 01:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


"is stealing a bike theft?"

yes




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 01:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
...The trap constitutes assault and whoever committed that assault should be held accountable.


No



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FuddyDuddy
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 06:22 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
If you stole something from me I would not want to paralyze you for life as punishment.

It's that simple. Yes, the bike thief is wrong and deserves punishment, but this isn't it. The trap constitutes assault and whoever committed that assault should be held accountable.


It all comes down to if the Putz was honest he would have had no worries, the optimum word were looking for in this sentence is "honest". An honest person would have walked right by that bike and left it alone, now if that person turned into a Putz well then there are all sorts of consequences, you know, sort of like that old TV show, "Truth or Consequences" and those Putz chose the latter. Kracus I'm not putting you down but I bet if someone stole something from you, you would want to tear his head off, beat him to a bloody pulp and I bet if that were your bike that the Putz took and that happened to him you would think it justice, just saying.

Edit: OK, I'm done you all fight it out how you like I've said my piece *LOL* Carry on



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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 06:30 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lars63 wrote:
Kracus I'm not putting you down but I bet if someone stole something from you, you would want to tear his head off, beat him to a bloody pulp and I bet if that were your bike that the Putz took and that happened to him you would think it justice, just saying.

What the fuck, if someone stole my car I wouldn't even want to beat them to a bloody pulp. :eek:

Some people are just wired different, I guess.



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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 07:33 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


jesus lars, people sometimes get desperate and make mistakes. they don't need to pay with their lives.




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 07:58 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If something bad happened every time you did something wrong, you'd do less/no wrong. Though I wish the "bad" would be equivalent to the wrong. I still don't feel sorry for someone when karma deals a greater blow. I think what people seem to be missing/over looking/ignoring is the fact that life isn't fair. The world doesn't owe you anything. It doesn't owe you a safe drunk driving trip home. It doesn't owe you an overdose free heroin experience. Just like it doesn't owe you a pleasant stolen bike ride. YOU are responsible for your own actions. If YOU are willing to take the risk. YOU must accept the consequences. No matter what they are. It's called being responsible. A concept this world is slowly losing sight of. People are always looking for a way to blame someone else instead of being an adult and owning their mistakes.

Grow up...




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Legend
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 07:58 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ganemi wrote:
I would love a vigilante that murdered vigilantes.


Now there's a power that would never be abused :dork:




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-11-2017 08:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Should be a pretty short career



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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 04:39 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lars63 wrote:
Κracus wrote:
If you stole something from me I would not want to paralyze you for life as punishment.

It's that simple. Yes, the bike thief is wrong and deserves punishment, but this isn't it. The trap constitutes assault and whoever committed that assault should be held accountable.


It all comes down to if the Putz was honest he would have had no worries, the optimum word were looking for in this sentence is "honest". An honest person would have walked right by that bike and left it alone, now if that person turned into a Putz well then there are all sorts of consequences, you know, sort of like that old TV show, "Truth or Consequences" and those Putz chose the latter. Kracus I'm not putting you down but I bet if someone stole something from you, you would want to tear his head off, beat him to a bloody pulp and I bet if that were your bike that the Putz took and that happened to him you would think it justice, just saying.

Edit: OK, I'm done you all fight it out how you like I've said my piece *LOL* Carry on


I actually have been in that situation lars, a few times in fact. The guy that stole my Kona Cinderkone got a little roughed up but it wasn't because he stole my bike, he just wouldn't tell me who he sold it to when I found him. At this point I had him in my car so I jammed the brakes on and smashed his face into the dashboard... Got my bike back though. So you're somewhat correct that yeah, I felt like that but I had the opportunity to do much worse to the guy and I didn't.




Last edited by Κracus on 01-12-2017 06:15 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 06:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
Κracus wrote:
...The trap constitutes assault and whoever committed that assault should be held accountable.


No



Sure, but then don't cry like a bitch when you find our your government has been arming and training the same people that bombed the twin towers, for something like 100 years. If you think it's a conspiracy theory, you're super retarded.

You support people that completely fabricate needlessly dangerous situations, then either cry like bitches when they get hurt, or act like morally superior vigilantes when someone else does.

That kind of thinking is the reason so many states are turning into third world nations, while people engage in completely arbitrary, aimless violence like "Drug Wars" while super rich parasites that openly admit to being rapists are allowed to loot you.

It's not a super complex concept. There's not intellectual abstraction going on, it's the most basic ideas.

/everypoliticalthread




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 06:58 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ganemi wrote:
losCHUNK wrote:

No



Sure, but then don't cry like a bitch when you find our your government has been arming and training the same people that bombed the twin towers, for something like 100 years. If you think it's a conspiracy theory, you're super retarded.

You support people that completely fabricate needlessly dangerous situations, then either cry like bitches when they get hurt, or act like morally superior vigilantes when someone else does.

That kind of thinking is the reason so many states are turning into third world nations, while people engage in completely arbitrary, aimless violence like "Drug Wars" while super rich parasites that openly admit to being rapists are allowed to loot you.

It's not a super complex concept. There's not intellectual abstraction going on, it's the most basic ideas.

/everypoliticalthread


Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams ?. We can't be far away from Godwins law.

If what you're drawing objection to is the intent of the prankster then fair enough (I've already said as much). You're allowed to call someone a cunt if you think so, but, if you're chatting bollocks to make your point then don't.

An illegal act is an illegal act, there's no 2 ways about it and that includes drug laws or looting reguardless of who the person is. Our justice systems may not be perfect but progressive societies means we get progressive laws. In the case of the bike, the reason why the law is not being broken is to protect innocent people from liability, your intent doesn't mean fuck all when someone else makes a mistake. The thief took a risk that he would have been fully aware of. He was taking a bike ffs, someone elses property and didn't bother determining if it could be taken safely, how is that anyone elses fault ?, because the bike was asking for it ?.



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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 07:09 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It's the intent of the person that tied it up there as a trap. It was placed there, with the intent of harming whoever might try and steal it. The intent is why this would be seen as assault in a court.

It is in fact very similar to people who break into houses and get shot only to see the owner get charged with assault/manslaughter. At the end of the day, you just can't assault other people who pose you no threat.

Beyond that, the morality of what they're doing is beyond poor as they're recording this with the intent to profit as well as committing assault on people who may have bad moral judgement themselves but are most certainly down on their luck.

I understand why people see that stuff and think "Ha! that guy deserved it!" but at the end of the day I guarantee you a judge will not.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 07:14 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
It's the intent of the person that tied it up there as a trap. It was placed there, with the intent of harming whoever might try and steal it. The intent is why this would be seen as assault in a court.


No, it is not considered a trap in the eyes of the law as it isn't concealed, it's a rope tied to a bike, similiar to that of a lock. This is the point I am making, the thief would have been able to determine the repercussions of his actions if he had followed his duty of care.

The owners shooting someone and getting charged is considered excessive force, there's no way for a criminal to avoid this.

If you go into court with the "he got what he deserved" excuse and nothing more then I agree. Assuming that these people are down on their luck is another assumption n all, like I said theyre heroin pushing rapist gangsters.

A better example is a thief electrocuting himself when stealing copper cables or robbing lead off a roof and falling to his death.



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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 07:25 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It is a trap. If it wasn't, they wouldn't be there filming it. They wouldn't have tied it on a slope. They wouldn't have used a rope long enough to cause the mayhem you saw and I'm pretty sure the rope is as concealed as they could manage to make it. All of that was intentional and saying it isn't is just being ignorant and wouldn't fly in court. This is assault plain and simple.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 07:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The requirement for a booby trap is concealment, the rope wasn't concealed as it was tied to the fence and the bike, it then trailed off behind them as it went down the slope. The prankster intended for someone to take his bike, that's it, his duty of care ended when someone took it so no laws have been broken.



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Last edited by losCHUNK on 01-12-2017 07:50 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 07:46 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Wow... Ok, so answer me this. If it wasn't a trap, why did the owner of the bike place it there tied up the way he did?




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 07:50 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


As I said, in law a trap is considered something that is concealed, I edited above to show the intent of the prankster ^. He can tie it up anyway he wishes, give it flat tyres, remove the brakes or loosen the handlebars... so long as the risk is apparent then their is no law being broken.



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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 07:54 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lol... yeah I'm sure the "I didn't conceal my trap so it's not a trap" excuse would work brilliantly in court. You're fucking dense.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 07:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It's how the law defines it dumb ass, it's not a trap if it isn't concealed and the risk is apparent. Otherwise my power cable outside my house could be considered a trap.

In the case of the video the thief failed to check wether the bike could be ridden, if he had performed his duty of care there would be no accident.



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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 08:03 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 08:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nothing else ?, glad we cleared that up.



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Etile
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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 09:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


"putz" :smirk:




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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 11:16 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If you think it's OK to bait people into committing a crime just so you can hurt them and then profit from it, you're fucking sick.



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-12-2017 11:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm pretty sure that I never gave an opinion on how I felt about it.

My 1st reply is arguable I spose, but is just the 1st iteration of what I've been saying.



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