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Topic Starter Topic: Buried alive
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/23/girl.found/index.html

Quote:
Officer tells of finding Florida girl buried alive

AKE WORTH, Florida (CNN) -- A police officer who came upon an 8-year-old girl buried in a Florida landfill said "hopelessness turned to hope" when a fellow officer saw a finger move.


Holy crap, that would freak me out. :paranoid:
Good thing to know she's alive, but the fucker that did it needs to be assfucked by Bubba. :icon33:
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:28 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


When you Americans say thinks like 'put him in the pound-me-in-the-ass-prison' and 'that dude needs to be fucked by Bubba', do you feel this is fair and just, especially taking into account the high percentage of HIV positive inmates?



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yes.



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Barbaric.



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So is kidnapping an 8-year-old, raping her, and burying her alive, leaving her for dead.



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lars63
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That is a terrible thing to do to a child or anyone for that matter. I'm sorry, I have no pity for someone who does this sort of thing.



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:38 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Look, if you're going to send someone to a prison where you know there's a high chance he'll get sexually assualted by other inmates (who have a large chance to be infected by HIV), that is not justice.

That is goverment ordered rape and possibly murder, and i find it difficult to see how you can defend it.



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
Barbaric.


Not even close.. they need to be filled with more pain than that.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


riddla wrote:
I'm of the belief that child molesters should be put into wood chippers in the middle of town square.


Woods chippers act way too quick. The suffering needs to be long and painful, like their abuse.

An "eye for an eye" make the criminals think twice.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:44 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


riddla wrote:
Ryoki wrote:
That is goverment ordered rape and possibly murder, and i find it difficult to see how you can defend it.

Its quite easy to defend. That child's life is forever ruined. She no longer has her innocence and will probably have mental issues for life. To do such a thing to a child of EIGHT YEARS OLD is one step away from a death sentence. You not getting this is whats disturbing and difficult.

Wood chipper.


the point -> .

riddla missing it ---------------------> :)



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Punishment has nothing to do with vengeance or lack of pity, it's only goal should be to protect the populace. This can be achieved very effectively with imprisonment. There is absolutely no need for further punishment, no matter how barbaric the crime was, since the purpetrator is behind bars and is no longer a threat to society.

It's completely immoral.



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


mjrpes wrote:
An "eye for an eye" make the criminals think twice.


Sure, look at Afghanistan.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I look. I saw. I conquered.



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't support vengence for the sake of vengence. The ultimate goal of punishment is to prevent re-offense and deter criminals from breaking the law in the first place. Where possible, the criminal system should be adjusted accordingly based on the effect on crime rates, to determine that method which best reduces crime.

Some say Canada and Europe are too easy on criminals, maybe, but they have lower crime rates. I don't rule out other causes for this lower crime rate, but it's something to consider.




Last edited by Massive Quasars on 05-23-2005 07:58 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eye for an eye is the oldest law out there. Old is always best. Just like grandpa always knows best. If you don't go with eye for an eye you're saying that grandpa isn't best. BUT GRANDPA IS ALWAYS BEST!



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:50 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


riddla wrote:
Its quite easy to defend. That child's life is forever ruined. She no longer has her innocence and will probably have mental issues for life. To do such a thing to a child of EIGHT YEARS OLD is one step away from a death sentence. You not getting this is whats disturbing and difficult.


You think pulling her attacker through a woodchipper will take away the trauma? What possible good does it serve except making YOU feel better? And does that justify doing it?

I think not.




Last edited by Ryoki on 05-23-2005 07:50 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:50 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Doesn't the US have something like 10% of their adult male population in prison right now?
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 07:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Aren't we all selfish anyway. Even the preacher man who cries from his pulpit is only doing so because the fear of God is in him. Even the hippie liberal who sucks tree dick is only doing so because the tree gives good head.



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:06 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
Punishment has nothing to do with vengeance or lack of pity, it's only goal should be to protect the populace. This can be achieved very effectively with imprisonment. There is absolutely no need for further punishment, no matter how barbaric the crime was, since the purpetrator is behind bars and is no longer a threat to society.

It's completely immoral.


I hope to god you never have to ask yourself if you still believe this statement while standing over your child's hospital bed.
If that happened to my daughter, I would do everything I possibly could to make sure that whoever did it met a BAD end.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
riddla wrote:
Its quite easy to defend. That child's life is forever ruined. She no longer has her innocence and will probably have mental issues for life. To do such a thing to a child of EIGHT YEARS OLD is one step away from a death sentence. You not getting this is whats disturbing and difficult.


You think pulling her attacker through a woodchipper will take away the trauma? What possible good does it serve except making YOU feel better? And does that justify doing it?

I think not.


Incentive for others not to do it. That and it removes him from the population, thus bettering the gene pool. Oh, and more oxygen for me.

Bah, jsut give him to Marcellus Wallace.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I tend to agree with Ryoki, though I would add that in addition to protection for society (from the criminal), there should be, in addition, a focus on rehabilitation of the criminal.

Also, protection for society can be in the direct way (by jailing the perpetrator) or by deterrence (by making it less likely that others will commit crimes).

I don't believe in retributive justice, although if someone close to me was brutally murdered, it would be very hard to overcome the feelings. But I would rather resolve the feelings by watching the criminal accept his crime, and rehabilitate, than by bitter vengeance.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


old



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


[xeno]Julios wrote:
I tend to agree with Ryoki, though I would add that in addition to protection for society (from the criminal), there should be, in addition, a focus on rehabilitation of the criminal.

Also, protection for society can be in the direct way (by jailing the perpetrator) or by deterrence (by making it less likely that others will commit crimes).

I don't believe in retributive justice, although if someone close to me was brutally murdered, it would be very hard to overcome the feelings. But I would rather resolve the feelings by watching the criminal accept his crime, and rehabilitate, than by bitter vengeance.



Do you feel a sexual predator can be cured? I always thought sex was a preference and trying to change a predators sexual orientation was like trying to make a gay person straight or vice versa

*Pesky edits*



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


riddla wrote:
I might agree with the utopian stance on other crimes but sorry, anyone who does this to a child instantly deserves death. Yes, a public death to make others think twice when they start to entertain the idea of BEATING AND RAPING A CHILD AND THEN LEAVING HER TO DIE.


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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki is right, that's why we evolved from medieval justice. Even when it comes to horrible crimes like this you have to detach your emotions and feelings so it doesn't influence the process in a subjective way.

Revenge is not retribution
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


its all good man, hope to see ya around the Ap Lounge more often.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


saturn wrote:
Ryoki is right, that's why we evolved from medieval justice. Even when it comes to horrible crimes like this you have to detach your emotions and feelings so it doesn't influence the process in a subjective way.

Revenge is not retribution


An analogy would be beating your child severely for breaking a family heirloom.

Better to detach yourself and deal with the kid after you're not angry anymore.

I know it's not the best analogy -- breaking an object doesn't come anywhere near the pain involved in having something tragic happen to one of your children -- but I have to admit I think the reasoning behind it is the same.

That said, I also have to admit that it would be very hard to overcome a desire for swift revenge if anything like that ever happened to a child in my family, or a child I knew.

Because my first instinct is also the wood-chipper. But then I think, if the guy who committed the crime was, say, my brother, then I would surely hope for some forgiveness and lenience, and I would hope that he would be allowed to live, even if in a maximum security psych ward or something.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


[xeno]Julios wrote:
I tend to agree with Ryoki, though I would add that in addition to protection for society (from the criminal), there should be, in addition, a focus on rehabilitation of the criminal.

Also, protection for society can be in the direct way (by jailing the perpetrator) or by deterrence (by making it less likely that others will commit crimes).

I don't believe in retributive justice, although if someone close to me was brutally murdered, it would be very hard to overcome the feelings. But I would rather resolve the feelings by watching the criminal accept his crime, and rehabilitate, than by bitter vengeance.


We are in agreement. My first post was rather sloppy, but I think I got my point across.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


good addition to my post rook
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:46 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


[xeno]Julios wrote:

I don't believe in retributive justice, although if someone close to me was brutally murdered, it would be very hard to overcome the feelings. But I would rather resolve the feelings by watching the criminal accept his crime, and rehabilitate, than by bitter vengeance.


I'll never understand people like you. Why on earth does a piece of pigshit that would beat, rape, and bury a child deserve to be rehabilitated?
Two in the chest, one in the head.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


riddla wrote:
I might agree with the utopian stance on other crimes but sorry, anyone who does this to a child instantly deserves death. Yes, a public death to make others think twice when they start to entertain the idea of BEATING AND RAPING A CHILD AND THEN LEAVING HER TO DIE.


Consider what position the death penalty would put child fuckers in. Once they've committed the crime, they will either be forced to kill the children or risk facing execution by letting them go.

The result? Less child sex abuse cases, more child sex abuse homicide cases.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lars63 wrote:
Do you feel a sexual predator can be cured? I always thought sex was a preference and trying to change a predators sexual orientation was like trying to make a gay person straight or vice versa



Perhaps they can't be cured. Even more reason to have pity on them. You can still jail them to provide societal security - it just doesn't have to be with retributive intentions.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nightshade wrote:

I'll never understand people like you. Why on earth does a piece of pigshit that would beat, rape, and bury a child deserve to be rehabilitated?
Two in the chest, one in the head.


Perhaps it's because deep down I don't believe in free will.

Hence, the very concept of "deserve" doesn't mean anything fundamentally.
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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 08:58 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


riddla wrote:
I'm of the belief that child molesters should be put into wood chippers in the middle of town square.


ballsack 1st



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PostPosted: 05-23-2005 09:01 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


[xeno]Julios wrote:
Nightshade wrote:

I'll never understand people like you. Why on earth does a piece of pigshit that would beat, rape, and bury a child deserve to be rehabilitated?
Two in the chest, one in the head.


Perhaps it's because deep down I don't believe in free will.

Hence, the very concept of "deserve" doesn't mean anything fundamentally.


Ok, that's an entirely different discussion.
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