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Topic Starter Topic: Well what do you know.....

straight at you
straight at you
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 10:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


What story did Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena happen to be working on before she was shot at?

http://www.ilmanifesto.it/pag/sgrena/en ... e0ff0.html

Napalm used in Fallujah.




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Elite
Elite
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 10:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


oh and she has more...



_________________
a defining attribute of a government is that it has a monopoly on the legitimate exercise of violence...


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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 12:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think in this day and age of modern exposives, the average Joe Schmoe (or in this case Mu-hak-mabar), would not be able to tell the difference between some of the larger air to surface missiles, regular bombs, and fire bombs.

Example; the MK84 is a general all purpose bomb. It weighs 500KGs and does mucho damage to anything near it via is shear explosive force followed by it's plume of fire. No napalm though.

Image




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oldskool
oldskool
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 12:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lol, and the USA never wanted to pay ransom at all.




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Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 12:26 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Cool Blue wrote:
I think in this day and age of modern exposives, the average Joe Schmoe (or in this case Mu-hak-mabar), would not be able to tell the difference between some of the larger air to surface missiles, regular bombs, and fire bombs.

Example; the MK84 is a general all purpose bomb. It weighs 500KGs and does mucho damage to anything near it via is shear explosive force followed by it's plume of fire. No napalm though.

Image




Bull. You may not be able to tell the difference between a 500 and a 1000lb bomb, but there's no mistaking napalm.




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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 12:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Speaking of the after effects, it seems doubtful the untrained eye knows how to spot the difference.

:lol: Look what happened when untrained eyes viewed the evidence of the airplane crash into the Pentagon. Proof for sure the layman knows his ballistics!

*typo fixed for the anal retentive




Last edited by Cool Blue on 03-08-2005 12:35 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 12:34 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


its layman you hymen




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straight at you
straight at you
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 12:44 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Cool Blue wrote:
Speaking of the after effects, it seems doubtful the untrained eye knows how to spot the difference.

:lol: Look what happened when untrained eyes viewed the evidence of the airplane crash into the Pentagon. Proof for sure the layman knows his ballistics!

*typo fixed for the anal retentive


You sure sound like an expert. What about military personnel? You think they would know the difference?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le4395.htm
Quote:
The US journalist James Crawley was on the ground with US troops as an embedded journalist .
He too wanted to know , which kind of bombs exactly were dropped at this time .

James Crawley , US Military Journalist :

" I asked , what kind of bombs they've used , and they said laserbombs , satellite-guided bombs and Napalm." Napalm in the Iraq-War . The US Ministry of Defence rejected this announcements immediately : "We did not used Napalm in Iraq and we won't use it neither ."

Cockpit-pictures from an US combat-jet in Iraq . What exactly was dropped from the US-jets over Iraq ? Firebombs ? Napalm ?

We drive to San Diego , to the base of the US Marine Corps who were at service in Iraq . To us , the speaker confirmed the use of Napalm-firebombs .

Joseph Boehm , Colonel US Marine Corps :

" In the 30 wardays we used only 30 canisters . The marines used it on their way to Baghdad . Where it was exactly , I don't know . It is a lethal weapon and also a psychological weapon ."

These are the firebombs we're talking about : they are labeled MK 77 , an advanced and perfected version of the Napalm-bomb used in Vietnam . The US Military and armament-industry still uses the same name for it : MK 77(Napalm)

James Snyder , Physicians for Social Responsibility :

" There is absolutely no difference in the impact and use of MK 77 and Napalm . They're both made for the same purpose . The only difference lies in their fuel . But both are designed to kill as much humans as possible , attack bunkers and spread fire." We wanted to know from the Pentagon , if these MK 77 bombs were used in the Iraq-war .

A Pentagon-speaker told MONITOR :

" I can confirm , that MK 77 bombs were dropped at the Kuwaiti-Iraqi-border." And on the question , if the MK 77 bombs are indeed Napalm-firebombs , the speaker said : " MK 77 is called
Napalm due to the fact , that their impact on targets resembles remarkable to the use of Napalm."




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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 01:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I didn't say they didn't use napalm. I said I doubted civilians could recognize the difference in munitions <i>after</i> a bombing.

But nice try though guys. :)




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straight at you
straight at you
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 01:15 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So, me posting a report saying they used napalm, immediately followed by you saying that the people writing the report wouldn't be able to recognize it to begin with, isn't a form of you trying to discredit the story, and implying they don't know what they're talking about?

MAN! YOU SHOULD GO ON CROSSFIRE!




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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 01:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Actually you posted a link to a poorly written attempt at a news story that doesn't list a single person by name in reference to it's claims. In fact if you read you're own article, you would have read: "...No independent source could verify the facts, ..."

Why such a chip on your shoulder?


It's opening line and the ONLY accusation about napalm reads: "We buried them, but we could not identify them because they were charred from the napalm bombs used by the Americans».<b> People from Saqlawiya village, near Falluja, told al Jazeera television</b>,"


So... the 'report' you claim as fact, seems to be a reporter relaying what the <i>civilians</i> of the area had to say.




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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 01:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Cool Blue wrote:
Speaking of the after effects, it seems doubtful the untrained eye knows how to spot the difference.

:lol: Look what happened when untrained eyes viewed the evidence of the airplane crash into the Pentagon. Proof for sure the layman knows his ballistics!

*typo fixed for the anal retentive


I could tell the difference between a napalm bomb and a regular bomb. Napalm rains from the sky.




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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 01:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It's pretty hard to mistake one for the other.




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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 01:39 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Kracus wrote:
Cool Blue wrote:
Speaking of the after effects, it seems doubtful the untrained eye knows how to spot the difference.

:lol: Look what happened when untrained eyes viewed the evidence of the airplane crash into the Pentagon. Proof for sure the layman knows his ballistics!

*typo fixed for the anal retentive


I could tell the difference between a napalm bomb and a regular bomb. Napalm rains from the sky.


Actually it explodes upon contact with the ground.

Image




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4days Joined: 15 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 01:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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eminent
eminent
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 02:23 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I agree it would be easy for regular people to mistake different bombs, I mean the only way they could know what napalm looks like is from movies and we all know how accurate thous are.




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straight at you
straight at you
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 02:23 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Cool Blue wrote:
Actually you posted a link to a poorly written attempt at a news story that doesn't list a single person by name in reference to it's claims. In fact if you read you're own article, you would have read: "...No independent source could verify the facts, ..."

Why such a chip on your shoulder?


It's opening line and the ONLY accusation about napalm reads: "We buried them, but we could not identify them because they were charred from the napalm bombs used by the Americans».<b> People from Saqlawiya village, near Falluja, told al Jazeera television</b>,"


So... the 'report' you claim as fact, seems to be a reporter relaying what the <i>civilians</i> of the area had to say.


It's a fact that we used Napalm in Iraq, whether you refuse to admit it is a different issue.

I didn't post that article for the reason of proving we used napalm in Iraq. If you had read the news about it, you would have recognized that.

I posted that article to make the point that this journalist who was shot at, was working on this type of story about Fallujah. So what exactly is the point you are trying to make here? I mean, aside from displaying your ignorance about munitions, and the fact that you don't believe Iraqi people can tell the difference between a blown up person, and a person running around with flaming liquid covering their body?




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straight at you
straight at you
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 02:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


inphlict wrote:
I agree it would be easy for regular people to mistake different bombs, I mean the only way they could know what napalm looks like is from movies and we all know how accurate thous are.


I think they've become quite familiar with it since we used it on them the first time.




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eminent
eminent
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 02:25 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm not saying they didn't but I'm saying it's easy to mistake.




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BLARG
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 02:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I love the smell of Napalm in the morning.

That's how I can tell what they used.




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straight at you
straight at you
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 02:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well I'm not trying to imply that all these people can tell napalm by sight either, although I'm sure there are plenty of people there who can.

That wasn't really the point of the thread. :icon32:




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The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 03:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


R00k wrote:
It's a fact that we used Napalm in Iraq, whether you refuse to admit it is a different issue.

I didn't post that article for the reason of proving we used napalm in Iraq. If you had read the news about it, you would have recognized that.

I posted that article to make the point that this journalist who was shot at, was working on this type of story about Fallujah. So what exactly is the point you are trying to make here? I mean, aside from displaying your ignorance about munitions, and the fact that you don't believe Iraqi people can tell the difference between a blown up person, and a person running around with flaming liquid covering their body?


I never said they didn't use Napalm in Iraq. I was quite aware of your point of the thread. Your choice to assume I was ignorant to it would appear to be your problem, not mine. All I said was...

Cool Blue wrote:
I think in this day and age of modern explosives, the average Joe Schmoe (or in this case Mu-hak-mabar), would not be able to tell the difference between some of the larger air to surface missiles, regular bombs, and fire bombs.


As an opinion. I stand by that. We're speakin on terms visual accounts of the aftermath, not the visual accounts of the bombing itself.

You're chasing your tail.




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Elite
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 03:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


saturn wrote:
lol, and the USA never wanted to pay ransom at all.


The US has never paid rewards either.
Just after the invasion they dropped thousands if not millions of leaflets offering bountys on Saddams and his henhmen's heads.
Saddams sons were not found by accident, some one told the US where they were. Each was something like $25 million each.
Did the guy get it? No, the US arrested him and threw him Abu Ghraib.




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straight at you
straight at you
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 03:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If you want to keep being anal about this, there are hundreds of people over there who lost family member to napalm nearly 15 years ago, and I guarantee you they can tell you exactly what victims of it look like.

Your opinion is nothing but a vague generalization. It's about the same as saying people from Texas have a hard time driving cars.

But thanks for sharing it.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 03:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


4days wrote:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=napalm+admits+iraq&btnG=Search


All from 3rd party sites. No CNN, Yahoo!, MSNBC, ABC, Fox. How the hell can you believe independent journalism?




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4days Joined: 15 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 03:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Arkleseizure wrote:
All from 3rd party sites. No CNN, Yahoo!, MSNBC, ABC, Fox. How the hell can you believe independent journalism?


didn't even look at them to be honest. read about it a while back on the bbc and didn't need to see the story again. had a quick scan of the first page and the second result is from 'the independent', which is a fairly respectable uk newspaper.

what do you mean by that question anyway, is it supposed to be funny or something?




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Elite
Elite
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 03:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


real casuality figures of the first gulf war...

at an annual meeting at the bohemain grove a reported from people magazine was able to sneak in as a waiter.

"""He witnessed a speech -- "Smart Weapons" -- by former Navy Secretary JohnLehman, who stated that the Pentagon estimates that 200,000 Iraqis were killed by the U.S. and its allies during the Gulf War
"""

so just imagine how many more we have killed in years of war and occupation...600k? more? more then saddam? hell yes...




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straight at you
straight at you
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 03:59 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Arkleseizure wrote:
4days wrote:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=napalm+admits+iraq&btnG=Search


All from 3rd party sites. No CNN, Yahoo!, MSNBC, ABC, Fox. How the hell can you believe independent journalism?


Do you believe the CNN's and NBC's would actually pay the Woodward and Bernsteins of today? Mainstream media doesn't do investigative journalism today -- it costs too much and their bottom line takes too big a hit -- so the people today who spend all their time researching and writing have to have other outlets.

Sure, they aren't all bastions of integrity, and not all of them can be trusted, but how can you say something's not true just because it isn't on CNN?




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Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
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PostPosted: 03-08-2005 04:52 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Cool Blue wrote:

Example; the MK84 is a general all purpose bomb. It weighs 500KGs and does mucho damage to anything near it via is shear explosive force followed by it's plume of fire. No napalm though.



I just noticed this. You have no idea what you're talking about.




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